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April 5th, 2010 | MOTHER 3, Videos

For a long time I hoped someone would try a speed run of MOTHER 3 of some sort, whether it’s a real playthrough or a tool-assisted one. It looks like someone has finally started working on a TAS of the game, here’s part 1:

I guess most people wouldn’t consider this a legit TAS since it’s using a modified ROM. But I personally don’t care, it’s cool to see someone pushing the limits of the hacks that Jeff and I had to make to get the game into English and have the game still function and not die 😛

Has anyone tried a single-run non-tool-assisted run of the game yet? What are the completion times looking like? I’m guessing a fast real-life run would be in the 7-10 hour range. I don’t have the time or energy to try one myself though.

 

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30 Comments to MOTHER 3 Tool Assisted Speed Run


fael said on Apr. 5, 2010

are there any cool tricks as the ones form both M1 and M2? i don’t plan to watch the whole thing (altough it would be cool).

snes101 said on Apr. 5, 2010

If this TAS is just using the translation patch then I don’t see why English-language viewers would be complaining, as it only makes it more accessible.

But yeah, looks like this guy’s nearly finished the run, can’t wait!

EarthBoundRules said on Apr. 5, 2010

Great! I’ve been waiting for a speed run of this game for a LONG time!

Someone Else said on Apr. 5, 2010

It makes sense to complain as a TAS’s goal would be to go from start to finish as quickly as technically possible. The official version of Mother 3 would have a slightly different time possibility than the fan-patched version. If it were an official English release of the game, then there’d be no problem.

Anonymous said on Apr. 6, 2010

I don’t know how I feel about this. I think it is pretty cool since I do like TAS, but playing a hacked game is a big no. The guy above me is right. However, as an unofficial run it’s pretty cool.

Anonymous said on Apr. 6, 2010

There are loads of TAS runs of fan translated games – especially on the TAS videos site. So this is no problem really.

Carl said on Apr. 6, 2010

Someone Else:

That’s a fine explanation of why a speed run of the patched version of Mother 3 would be DIFFERENT than a speed run of the original version. But why would it be a PROBLEM?

Zeldario said on Apr. 6, 2010

Carl:

It’s because changing the text will change the timing on text boxes making them faster or slower and although this is a very small difference in regular play in terms of a tas it can be a huge deal since every frame matters.
Some fan translations are fine for tasing if the text isnt written letter by letter but in this game (especially with the way it was hacked to make the formatting work with the english text) the versions are too dissimilar.

Ross Miller said on Apr. 6, 2010

I never planned on submitting it anywhere. It will take 2-3 days to finish tool assisting chapter 8.

Karnov said on Apr. 6, 2010

Zeldario:

Once again, that’s a fine explanation of why it would be different. As long as it’s obvious [and, how could it not be] that it’s a speedrun of the only English version of the game that exists, how is that a problem?

A speedrun of the Japanese and US versions of Silhouette Mirage, or any RPG at all, would be very different from the original, because changing the text will change the timing on text boxes, making them faster or slower.

It’s not a TAS of the original Japanese version of Mother 3, and I’m not sure how anyone could confuse it for one. Being in English and all.

Someone Else said on Apr. 6, 2010

All that needs to happen is there to bee a distinction between what a TAS of the official version of the game would be and what a TAS of a fan-patched version would be.

Hey, I was just saying it makes sense that this could be considered a problem. My opinion, having a TAS of an altered version of the game is fine with me.

I mean, if there was a TAS of Super Mario World, except it was patched with the ability to waltz straight to the final boss on the map screen, that’d be fine with me. As long as they don’t claim it as “This is my super fast Super Mario World TAS!”. Even if it’s obvious that’s it’s obviously not the original unmodified game in the video, people can get confused by all sorts of things.

blahmoomoo said on Apr. 6, 2010

Personally I would greatly prefer the English version over the Japanese version for a TAS, and I’m sure most people (even over at TASVideos, as they have made exceptions before) would agree. I am fairly certain that the translation significantly changed how the text was displayed to handle variable width and sprite welding, but beyond that the game is unchanged. The sprite welding may create some lag, but that can be minimized.

However, I think this game is too epic and the story is too great to watch a full TAS (playing the game itself would be more satisfying). I would like to see a glitched run, but despite the weird programming of this game, it appears to be quite solid against glitching. Especially since, unlike Earthbound, every area is a different map. In Earthbound, if you glitched yourself through walls, you could walk to a different area since the entire game was a single map [with different tilesets depending on the area].

[Also, if the Japanese version has a glitch that the translated version does not, it can be used for a TAS because of that reason]

Carl said on Apr. 6, 2010

@Zeldario

Yes, I understand why a speed-run of the English version is *DIFFERENT* than a speed-run of the original Japanese version. But Someone Else didn’t just say that the speed-run of the English version would be different, he claimed that it would be a “problem.” Why? What’s the problem, specifically?

You say yourself that the versions are “too dissimilar.” Too dissimilar for WHAT? For the speed run of one version to be representative of a speed run of the other? That’s true, but so what? Why can’t a speed run of the English version be considered interesting in itself?

Ross Miller said on Apr. 6, 2010

There was absolutely no way I was doing a Japanese Tool Assisted run. It would have taken 3-4 months instead of 1-2 months. The game is indeed really solid against glitching. This compared to me sequence breaking from Twoson Department Store to Giygas final battle.

I would’ve been cool to bring back the Skip Sandwich and Skip Sandwich DX though.

Ross Miller said on Apr. 6, 2010

*It would’ve been cool to bring back the Skip Sandwich and Skip Sandwich DX though. (spelling my bad)

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neonix said on Apr. 6, 2010

I don’t understand what the “problem” is either. There is an obvious distinction between the English and Japanese versions. I don’t see why the complainers are trying to count them as one entity, as if a speed-run of the English game is trying to pass off as a speed-run of the Japanese game.

If someone does a TAS of a hacked rom, then they have done a TAS *OF THAT HACK*. Does that not make sense? The TAS’er here has done a TAS of the MOTHER 3 English Fan translation, which to any viewer is obviously not a run of MOTHER 3 in Japanese.

genisto9 said on Apr. 6, 2010

All the leveling takes place in this clip – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qd4_9KOfhGA

Black Beanlings + Enemy Bufferizers I guess. great strategy.

sigh said on Apr. 6, 2010

There isn’t a problem. It’s just people trying to drum up some kind of controversy for the sake of doing so.

The way I see it, it all comes simply down to all of Someone Else’s logical errors in coming to his assumption.

First off, there wouldn’t be a problem IF it was an official translation? How stupid. There wasn’t one, first off.

And if there was, what would make the difference between a translation being a factor for if a speed-run is legit or not? Because Nintendo would have had to authorize the translation? Uh, yeah, i’m sure that makes no difference at all, since Nintendo doesn’t exactly authorize TAS’s, either.

So right there, that’s like saying that an apple is automatically and completely rotten and unedible because it was bought from a grocery store, and not eaten straight off of the tree. Logic fail. The two things.. not being any good, and where it was aquired from, have nothing to do with the matter at hand: Whether or not it’s edible.

Aside from this basis for saying that a TAS isn’t credible being a load of flat-out BS, there’s the matter of the differences itself, and how this relates to the matter at hand, once again.

Someone Else tries to defend his position by bringing up a theoretical Super Mario World Rom with the intention of warping you straight to the boss.

I cannot begin to tell you how stupid of a connection that is.

So, let me get this straight. Is Something Else actually trying to imply that a ROM patched only for the purposes of translation is somehow equally on the level of a cheater rom specifically made to, say, warp Lucas straight from the Drago to Porky?

That is… no. *head shake* No. No. No. No. If he really is trying to make a link to a translation patch, comparing that to a Drago to Porky warp, then i’m sorry. No. That is one of the sheerly dumbest things I have ever heard, read, or seen in my entire life.

Not only is there no connection between the two, but only an imbecile would make that kind of WILDLY anachronistic comparasion of the intents of two patches, which could not possibly BE any more different than each other, and not actually see for themselves what a grossly incompetent statement or basis that is to base the legitimacy of something as wholly irrelevant as a TAS on.

So, I could in theory, by this logic, say that I would need to wear a certain kind of pants to get through a door, or else the passing through the door will not count. Even though i’ve already gone through the door, and that pants inherently have nothing to do with doors.

But that there is a PROBLEM with going through that door, because the right kind of pants are necessary to go through a standard door that any person could walk through. Because the pants are not considered the “official pants” that apparently fit the door, even though they are… say… khaki pants and not jeans, and the door is about 7 feet wide.

So the argument, metaphorically presented here looks like this:

Pants =/= Door, because Khaki > Jeans = unacceptable for that door, as well as 8-foot wide pants = unacceptable for that door.

That makes about as much sense as:

Rom =/= TAS, because official translation > unofficial translation = Unacceptable for that door, as well as Warping Patch also unacceptable for that door.

It’s a stupid, nonsensical, and irrelevantly silly criteria based on comparing apples and oranges and applying that to red apples versus green apples as a criteria for the fruit being inedible.

It doesn’t take a genius to figure out how that kind of logic is flawed beyond all incomprehensible belief.

MarioFan3 said on Apr. 6, 2010

TBH, Mother3 took me about 30 hours at the least on my first playthrough, and I kept playing it like it was going out of style. Seriously, whenever I had my GBA with me, I would just keep on playing Mother3, I even snuck it inside college several times… don’t tell anyone though, some crows might steal it 😉

@Everyone (except “sigh”):
Guys, guys this isn’t a debate over whether or not this is a legitimate TAS, take it to the forums if you want an argument 🙂 …….. Ok, I’ll admit it, I couldn’t resist adding to the argument, but seriously if this keeps up, we need to use the forums. 😉

@sigh (my basic message for you):
ALL he was pointing out was that if someone does a TAS of any sort of hack, they are doing a TAS of that hack specifically and that hack alone.
All he did was, is make an extremely obvious example that states very clearly that this TAS is a TAS of the translation, not the original. There was no need to flip out onto him, sounding like Spock the whole way through a lecture, sheesh.

@sigh: (if you want more from me, then you’ve asked for more, I have plenty to say to you)
“That is all he was pointing out.” The only relation he intended for his “hypothetical hack and this hack” example, is that “they are both hacks”, and a TAS can only be named after the original if such hack isn’t used.

He didn’t try to say “Instant Super Mario World Hack = Mother3 Fan Translation”” no, he did not, I understood perfectly what he was “implying” not literally word for word what he was “saying”.

Unless you stop taking absolutely everything literally like someone who has only learnt the basics of English, you’re not going to get very far in everyday English conversation, as the majority of things we say are “implying” at something we are not directly “saying”.

If someone says to you “Do you see that door?” in an angry tone, do you simply reply “Yes, I can see the door perfectly fine.”? I would hope not, because it’s implied that they are telling you to get out using the damn door.
They don’t “say” it like that, you know that’s what they’ve “implied”, then again you already sound like you would use the literal answer anyway. 😛

@sigh: (if you STILL think his example is shot, then I think I should be “sigh”ing at you)
Look at your own example, what does a pair of pants and a door have any “literal” relation to a TAS of Mother3? You say Someone Else’s example doesn’t use any logic, but look at your own example. 😉

You seem illogical to use to use logic as your prime argument, when you don’t even follow logic yourself. May I ask how the Mother3 Fan Translation can not fit through a 7 foot (2.1336 metre) door?
It’s on my GBA Flash Cart, my GBA even seems to fit through a 2 metre door quite fine, I could probably fit thousands of GBAs with a translation patched Mother3 inserted through that “door” so what’s your point? See, just using your logic proves that your “logical” views are the ones that are flawed. 😛

@sigh: (if you’re STILL standing in the same position)
Seriously, you need to get checked out for insanity or drugs if your mind has in-differed.
See, I don’t mean that entirely but did you get my “implication”?
You are right about one thing though, when you say “That makes about as much sense as:(…)” You are perfectly right, your example doesn’t make ANY sense. XD

P.S: If you’re someone who wants MORE then take it to the forums, if you’re not “sigh” and yet you still read everything I said, then good on you, you’ve earned 50,000 experience points! Hope you’ve leveled up! 🙂

Ross Miller said on Apr. 6, 2010

I made it for entertainment purposes only. I always expected it to get declined from tasvideos.

Someone Else said on Apr. 7, 2010

Whoah whoah. Sigh, I don’t know what I did to prompt such a response! Thank you, MarioFan3, you’ve explained what I was trying to say for me.

I know there isn’t a problem with doing any sort of TAS on any sort of game, hacked or otherwise. The “problem” I was referring to would be having it recognised as “A TAS of Mother 3”, which it technically isn’t. The definition of “Mother 3”, or any game, is going to be its original official version. This TAS isn’t a TAS of “Mother 3”, it is a TAS of “Mother 3 with a patch”.

neonix said on Apr. 7, 2010

@MarioFan3: I’m not disagreeing with anything you said, but I do want to point out one thing. I’ll quote you:
“@sigh: (if you STILL think his example is shot, then I think I should be “sigh”ing at you)
Look at your own example, what does a pair of pants and a door have any “literal” relation to a TAS of Mother3? You say Someone Else’s example doesn’t use any logic, but look at your own example. ;)”

Sigh used an analogy. Not a comparison. An analogy is valid as long as the objects in the analogy (set 2) have the same relation to EACH OTHER as the objects in the original event (set 1) have to EACH OTHER. Objects in set 1 and set 2 need not have any relation to each other. You shouldn’t mix objects from the two sets and expect them to make sense.

For example: I can refer to going to the grocery store and filling up my car’s gas tank in one trip as “killing two birds with one stone.” Obviously it would make no sense to try and mix them up and say I killed the groceries and my gas tank with a stone.

MarioFan3 said on Apr. 7, 2010

Heheh, of course! *facepalms out of stupidity* I was just so flipped out at the time that it’s laughable to see what I wrote now. 😀 (scratch the last two paragraphs) Btw, did you level up? 😉

P.S: Good job on winning all that Mother1+2 swag neonix, especially with the signature! It feels great to have a rare signature. on one of your favourite games 🙂
(when Charles Martinet came here to Australia last year, my copy of Super Mario Galaxy got signed by him right in front of me, comes with a bonus smiley face!)

Flygon said on Apr. 10, 2010

As a Publisher for TASVideos, I highly look forward to this TAS being submitted (And if I can find the Hard Drive space for it, encoding it in High Definition… though, I might end up being restricted to Standard Definition simply because of the sheer length the run will probably be… either way, the backgrounds are H.264 hell… but lets get off that subject).

I expect it to be accepted, even with the translation patch, simply because the game has such a large following that rejection would simply lead to a whole hellava lot of controversy.

Either way, I’ll probably regret putting the Publisher statement there… my ego gets a better of me all the time. The point is, I look forward to this being completed with rather large enthusiasm.

MG said on Apr. 10, 2010

I wouldn’t consider this a non-TAS real-life run of Mother 3, but I used a cheat that puts everyone at level 99 at the beginning of the game, just to see how fast I could play through the game without manipulating bugs and cheats and whatnot. At the end, my time was just a little over 7 hours.

Chimera said on Apr. 11, 2010

I did a speed run a while back, no videos, but my play time was 6:42

Ross Miller said on Apr. 12, 2010

chimera new game +? This one looks like it will be under 5:00 no prob.

Carl said on Apr. 13, 2010

@Flygon,

What would be the point of encoding the video in High Definition? The GBA’s resolution is only 240×160, far below that of even standard definition.

Ross Miller said on Apr. 13, 2010

since the encoding is so large I have to make the final product even more lo-def than that lol. my computer can handle around 370 gigs. that’s saying a lot.


 
 

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